Today, I’d like to bring you the second interview exploring the way ladies facing fertility issues feel about the Quiverfull movement. If you missed the first one, you can read it here.
Now, please welcome Stephanie Clark of Mommy in Waiting.
Please introduce yourself and share a little background on your personal fertility journey.
I’m Stephanie Clark, a 24 year-old who has struggled with infertility since I was 15. Not that I was trying to have children then (I only got married 3.5 years ago!), but I’ve always known—thanks to irregular cycles and my mother’s fertility history—that I would have problems conceiving. For the first year or so of our marriage, I was on an oral contraceptive called Yaz that my GYN proscribed as soon as she heard I was engaged. I didn’t question it—it’s what everybody just did when they were as young as I was: I was still in college and wanted to pursue a graduate degree before risking kids. After encountering some Quiverfull CDs, books, and blogs, my husband and I began to reconsider that decision, and shortly after we opened our hearts to children—whenever and however many God intended. I’d been regular for over a year thanks to birth control, so I’d kind of forgotten the trouble I might have. But seven+ months after stopping Yaz, I had never had another cycle. I waited a year, and then my GYN proscribed Clomid to help me ovulate. A year and many Clomid cycles later, I went to a fertility specialist, and for the last four months I’ve been on Femara, also to help me ovulate. Though ovulation has occurred, pregnancy has not, and all around me friends who were married since we started “trying” are getting pregnant, if not already having babies. I’m not going to lie and say that I can rejoice with them without a selfish ache in my heart. I’m still not sure exactly what causes my infertility, and—thanks to a ridiculous insurance policy—we can’t afford to find out for a while yet.
How does it make you feel when people discuss “Quiverfull” ideology?
There are two sides of me reacting to Quiverfull. One is the knowledge that the truth of God’s Word is being preached in saying that children are blessings and should never be rejected or avoided by a married couple. I am wildly supportive of the ideology, and cheer it on and promote it whenever possible. That’s the intellectual side, even the spiritual side. The emotional side of me does hurt, especially if it’s recently after another monthly disappointment. But just because the truth might “hurt my feelings” or make me feel selfishly sad that I cannot, at this time, enjoy the blessings spoken of does not change that truth or the need for it to be spoken.
Do you think the idea that children are a blessing is an important one to get out to the world, or is it a wrong or unhelpful focus?
I think it is highly important to spread this message to the Christian world, yes. We have a duty to our brothers and sisters to share with them the truth of God’s Word, to hold them accountable so that they do not fall away. However, I think going to a rural tribe in Africa who have never heard the Word of God and immediately jumping into, “Oh yeah, and you know those condoms the international workers gave you? It’s a sin to use them.” might not be the best idea. First, people need to hear the Gospel and, after they have obeyed it, then more mature Christians can begin guiding them in the details of the faith, this one—eventually—included.
Have people ever assumed that you don’t have children because you don’t want them? And if so, how do you feel about it when it happens?
I think because my husband and I are still in our early 20′s and have been married less than five years, people assume that we don’t have children yet because we’re not ready for them, but it’s rarely brought up in conversation. When it is, I usually clarify that no, we would like as many children as God would give us as soon as He would want to give them to us. They’re often quite shocked. It can be hurtful, but only as a reminder that I don’t have a baby in my arms.
One thing I have noticed is that when I’m loving on a friend’s baby, people around us will comment to my husband, “Uh oh, better get that baby away from her—she’s got the fever,” as if my husband wouldn’t like the idea of babies. He is quick to correct them, however.
How does it make you feel when people announce they’re “expecting another blessing”? Is there a way we can be more sensitive about pregnancy announcements?
It depends on the situation. If the mother-to-be has been a mother many times over already, I can be a little bitter. The same holds true for the young expecting woman my age who has been married for a much shorter time than I have. Facebook is not my friend: it seems like there are pregnancy announcements and updates on every other status post I scrowl through. I admit that there have been occasions when I’ve selfishly burst into angry tears, and then I feel like a horrible person, so I cry some more about that. I used to blame the hormone-wrecking Clomid, and recently I haven’t had that excuse, so I guess it’s just me.
I don’t know of a more sensitive way to make the announcement, really. The pain is of my own making: they are not hurting me, and to be hurt by their time of rejoicing is a horribly un-Christian thing that they should not have to deal with. One thing that does bother me is when expectant mothers complain about pregnancy symptoms, how tired they are, how bad they’re feeling. I want to shake them a little and say, “I’d give a whole, whole lot to be throwing up every day, and don’t you forget it!”
What are your thoughts on adoption, IVF etc.? How do you feel when well-meaning people bring up these options or other ways of fixing your “problem?”
At some point, I would love to adopt. It has always been our “game-plan,” always been something we’ve prayed about. But recently we decided that we didn’t want to turn immediately to that as an alternative. Whether we have children “of our own” or not, someday we do want to adopt.
IVF is something I’m undecided on. It is not a bridge I have been near crossing, yet, and so I cannot say would I would or wouldn’t do if that were my only option to have a biological baby. If I were to pursue that option, it would be in such a way that no fertilized eggs would be left frozen or discarded.
What is the most encouraging thing anyone has ever said or done to support you in your fertility struggles?
“I’m so sorry.” That’s it. There’s no need to say, “God’s timing is perfect” or “He has a plan” or anything else, however well-intentioned it may be. I know these things are true, but hearing them over and over and over again from people in all walks of life (some of whom are on birth control, ironically enough) doesn’t actually make me feel any better. It makes me feel as if they are feeding me some trite, spiritual phrase, passing the buck to God, unwilling to face my pain head-on and just grieve with me. After a recent disappointment, a good friend (a single man, actually, who I wouldn’t think would understand at all) simply said “I’m so sorry.” And he meant it. And that was enough. (I hope that isn’t offensive to anybody; I know a lot of people just don’t know what to say, but again, “I’m sorry” will usually suffice.)
Here are some links to some of Stephanie’s blog posts for those who’d like to read more.
Good post. I love her attitude. And her advice is very well received. A sincere “I’m sorry” can go a long way in many situations. Some pain is so deep that only God can give comfort.
Thank you so much for addressing what i think of as the dark underbelly of being open to life. My heart goes out to Stephanie and all the other young women in her shoes. In fact, her story is very, very much like mine. The only difference is that I wasn’t married until I was 28, so I got a later start trying for children. I so remember how guilty I felt when a friend of mine announced she was pregnant and then later miscarried, after I had been secretly resentful of her good news. I also remember the woman who announced her pregnancy to me by saying, “Well, I’m miserable again.” (She had another baby about every 18 months.) Yes, I was very angry and, while I have forgiven her, I still think it was a pretty callous thing to say to someone whom she knew desperately wanted to be pregnant.
Today, I am 48 years old and have three adopted children. I know that being their parents is part of God’s perfect plan for my husband and I’s lives. And I will also admit that advancing age does take away much of the terrible craving for a baby. However, though I am now looking forward to grandchildren, it still hurts sometimes. And even now, I find myself sometimes playing silly “what if” games: what if we’d tried harder, what if we’d known then what we know now, etc. But these thoughts are just games. The truth is that for many of us, infertility is the cross our loving God chooses for our sanctification. And, we need not be ashamed of asking, with our LORD, that “this cup be taken away,” as long as we remember to include “not my will but thine be done.”
For what it’s worth, I do have a few thoughts on the role of infertility in the quiversful movement. First, we should remember to promote the philosophy in our families of accepting as many children as God gives. All three of mine know that we children are a blessing and that we hope that God blesses them richly in that area of their lives. Yes, it would be easier to pretend that this was our decision, but it wouldn’t be telling the truth.
Next, I would like to comment on adoption. I know that many, many American Christians spend thousands and thousands of dollars to adopt infants from other countries, and even from the US. While I appreciate the longing for a “perfect” baby that looks just like you, I would like to encourage others who believe in large families to consider adopting a group of siblings. These children are often difficult to place because so many families only want one or two children. Our three are full siblings and though the two older ones were not infants, we have still been so blessed to be their mom and dad.
Finally, concerning extreme measures such as in vitro fertilization, etc., please keep in mind that our guiding principle is that God is opens and closes the womb by His choice. While I would not want to judge anyone else on this issue, we need to remember that trusting God must include trusting Him when He says “no.”
Thank you again for this wonderful series. I look forward to reading more on this topic.
This was a very well written post. And infertility is something I’ve been thinking about a lot lately as I see my window for having children closing. I’ve been feeling lately that my husband and I should start our family before it’s too late (we’re in our early 30s) but the issue of finances always comes up. It always seems financially impossible to afford a family. Is there a difference between trusting the Lord and being impractical?
These posts are interesting and helpful. My struggle is that while others are praying for children, we’re praying we don’t get pregnant–not because we don’t want lots of children, we do–but because of a pregnancy-related autoimmune disease. We seem to be very fertile (we’ve been blessed with 2 wonderful little accidents in 4 years of marriage),
and while we would leap for joy to find out we’re having another, it takes quite a toll. In our case, adoption is looking much more attractive (though that’s also been on our hearts since before my disease ever surfaced).
I appreciate you taking a look at the quiverfull thing from another angle. I guess I’ve got another angle still.
Thank you so much for doing this series. I have been praying and praying for someone to talk to or something to read on this topic-faith and infertility.
My husband and I have been trying to get pregnant for over 3 years and this last year has been a really big struggle for me to continue to trust God for the plans he has for our family, it’s so great to hear of others going through similar situations.
Amanda,
I want to tread very likely here because I don’t know your financial situation, but there are two thoughts I wanted to pass along. One, the Bible never tells us to prevent children because we can’t afford them. That’s something our society has invented, which is ironic because we live in the richest country in the world.
Two, nearly everything our society tells us we “must have” for a baby would be ludicrous to most of the world’s population. Your baby doesn’t need his own room (unless your landlord is going to evict you otherwise). You don’t need a second car or even one car if you have decent public transport. You don’t need all the fancy baby equipment for sale at Babies “R” Us, or even most of it. (Coincidentally, I am just finishing up a blog post on the cost of buying the most basic, bare bones baby items. I’ll send you an e-mail when it’s up.) Your baby needs love, cuddles, milk, and warmth. Everything else is creatively negotiable. A good question to ask yourself when you’re considering things you can’t afford would be, “Is this thing so important, that if I couldn’t have it, I would rather not have been born?” Maybe you’ll decide that it is, but I’m willing to bet that a lot of it isn’t.
Great post!
I just wanted to comment on the financial aspect of childrearing. Obviously none of us know Amanda’s (above) financial situation or what God has in store for her and her husband. The matter of if and when they have children is firmly between the two of them and the Lord.
However, I think it’s a sticky issue to get into the mindset that if the Bible does not directly comment on something, we should take that omission as a mandate in one direction or the other. If anything, it seems to me that the Bible’s lack of a direct statement on something should be taken as a sign that there may be more than one way to correctly interpret the issue at hand. For the sake of argument, we could just as easily pull up verses from Proverbs about wisely calculating the cost of things before jumping into them.
As for the second point, I agree that there’s a huge amount of marketing aimed at pregnant women and young parents. On the other hand, we all know that babies don’t stay babies for long. The financial commitment to raising a child from birth to 18 is significant, and I don’t think it can be adequately answered by breastfeeding or buying second hand. What about education? What about 18 years of basic physical necessities?
I want to be very clear that I’m NOT saying people should wait to have children. I just want to say that I think those questions are real, and they probably can’t and shouldn’t be answered through Internet debate or persuasive writing. Discussed, sure. Everybody loves a healthy discussion. But in the end, I think the best we as a Christian community can do is give our opinions (with the full knowledge that they are *our* opinions and not necessarily God’s) and then allow each couple the space to prayerfully consider what they believe God wants for their families.
And now you know *my* opinion.
Kathryn,
I’m confused. Amanda asked me a question. Are you saying she was wrong for asking it, or that I was wrong for trying to answer it?
You are right that I didn’t address the longer term costs of raising children such as education. But as someone who had to have loans and scholarships and student jobs to pay for her education because her parents couldn’t cover it, I have to say, I’m glad they took the risk and had me.
What is the difference between using drugs to prevent pregnancy and using drugs to encourage pregnancy? I thought quiverfull was all about “trusting god with your fertility” not “having lots of babies” (although it would appear that way to outsiders)
It seems a bit hypocritical to counsel against one hormone pill but encourage another, and makes it seem like the quiverfull movement wants every woman to be a mother even when god has pretty much said no. There is much a childless couple can do for the kingdom that those responsible for children cannot.
Great post, however, I need to mention something.
I don’t think it’s EVER a good idea to tell someone that using a condom is sin. It just isn’t. The Bible does NOT say that.
Yes children are a blessing. Yes, I personally believe for me and my family, that we should welcome as many children as the Lord sees fit to give us. But I would never tell anyone that using a condom is a sin for THEM. It would be for me, but I cannot make that argument for them. Now abortifacient birth control? Yes, that’s a sin. It’s a sin to kill babies. But preventing pregnancy by a barrier method? No, you cannot convince me that is a sin, and the Bible does not say it is, either.
As far as I understand, the Bible does not make a blanket statement that for ALL believers, preventing a blessing from the Lord by intervening (as in a barrier method of birth control) is a sin. If the Lord has convicted you and your dh to be open to as many children as he wants to give you, then no, you should not use one. Then it would be a sin.
We need to be careful not to make rules and laws out of things that the Bible does not.
Mrs. P,
Oops. I didn’t mean to offend you. Of course I don’t think she was wrong for asking a question, and of course I don’t think you were wrong for giving an answer. In the same vein, I hope you don’t think it was “wrong” of me to offer a differing opinion/perspective on the issue.
I think you may have read my comments in the last full paragraph in a far more personal and accusatory tone than I wrote them. I simply meant to express that while discussion is good, in the end I think both of us would probably agree that the most important thing we can do as a Christian community is encourage people to take their concerns to God.
Katheryn,
You raised some of the points that have prevented us from deciding to have children. When we have this conversation, I always point out few necessities an infant needs. In contrast, my husband points out the long term expenses, often quoting one of the stats floating around the web today that it costs about 200,000 to raise a child to age 18.
Our financial situation isn’t terrible. It’s the best financial position we’ve been in since we married two years ago. I have a steady well-paying job with good insurance. However, my husband has just returned to school because through my job he gets to go to school for free–an excellent benefit indeed. However, it means my husband isn’t pulling in much of an income at all.
We’ve done a lot of trimming the fat from our budget. Our major problem is debt, mostly student loans. Frankly, the way the system is set up, I won’t be free from this financial burden until well after my window for having children is closed. I feel like it’s a no-win situation. Part of me says that if I had a child I wouldn’t be able to raise him the way I wanted to–not just give him things, but time. Is this God telling me that I should be on another path? I have to wonder is motherhood God’s plan for me? I don’t know.
Kathryn,
I’m sorry I misunderstood you. Thanks for clarifying. You’re always welcome to offer a different perspective!
Amanda,
Here are a few thoughts:
First, does your husband really want children? Obviously, I have no idea as to the answer to this question, but the impression I’m getting just from your comments is that maybe he’s not so excited about the idea. If he’s not ready for/doesn’t want children, that makes all the financial stuff moot.
Next, you are right that the way things are set up now, you would not be able to give your child much in the way of time. It’s really hard to be the primary bread winner and the primary care giver. And no matter how wonderful your husband is, babies really do need their mothers. If having a family is important to you and your husband, you would have to make some radical life changes. I would never in a million years presume to tell you that you SHOULD make those changes, but if you think you want to, you should know that it is probably possible with creativity.
Third, the estimate that it takes $200,000 to raise a child is ridiculous. I’ve just done some quick research on the study that produced that number, and it’s got me itching to write a separate blog post on that after I finish up the post on the cost of raising babies. If I get it written, I’ll send you an e-mail, Lord willing.
Hey there, Amanda
We also have a lot of school debt, so I feel for you there. I wish I had some kind of fantastic insight, but all I really wanted to say was just to encourage you not to let the financial stuff speak louder than God or even the yearnings of your own heart as you think through this issue.
Everybody has an opinion on everything, and I’m sure there are lots of people who would be critical of the fact that I’m 7 months pregnant and we’ll still be paying off student loans for another 15 years. In the end, we decided that while we’re committed to paying down our debt, we didn’t want to leave a decision as important as whether or not we have children to something as arbitrary and changeable as finances.
I don’t think the goal is for everybody to always come to the same conclusion about every situation… But I do think that there’s a sense of peace and confidence that often comes with doing whatever God has designed you to do. I’ll be praying for you and your husband, that God will give you both a sense of confidence and clear direction. Best wishes!
Love the discussion going on here. As far as the debt part is considered I would recommend Dave Ramsey’s Financial Peace University. My husband and I went through a few years ago and it has changed our financial lives. We are currently working on paying off our debt and the beauty of the the program is it shows you how you can pay off and manage your debt no matter how small your income is. We still have a long way to go and have alot of student debt but I’m confident that if we have a baby despite that we have the tools to make it work financially.
Also we’ve been through a lot in the last few years (both being unemployed and living at our church) So I also know that God is faithful and always provides. I know everyone’s situation is different but just thought I would share my 2 bits.
What happens to the woman who dearly wants more children in accordance with God’s purpose, and is strongly convinced that the two she has are not in fact “all” her children (as in, some are missing yet), but her husband got “fixed” – in other words, broken – against her consent and convictions, because she wouldn’t take a pill that screwed up her system, and no matter how she prays and pleads, he refuses to even consider a reversal and threatens divorce if she presses the issue? It is supposed to be God’s decision how many to give you, not solely your husband’s! And the children want more children too. What then???
Sherri,
My heart would go out to someone in this situation who is feeling so much sadness and frustration, and I would remind her that God’s ultimate purpose is to conform us to the image of His Son, not necessarily to give us many children. Every single one of us faces difficulties, trials, and heartaches of one form or another that are the fires that try our faith. It may be that this is what God is using in this woman’s life to work His purposes in her.
I think I would also point her to 1 Peter 3:1-6 as good direction for a wife who’s husband is going against her convictions.
These are great interviews. I personally have a hard time myself announcing my pregnancies these days via social network for fear of making those of my friends who are struggling with infertility or loss feel sad. I do it anyways as of course it cannot be a secret, but with the prayer that the Lord would encourage them if they read it and that the enemy would not whisper lies in their ears (or at least they would not hear it!).
I think the hardest thing is that the Quiverfull people that I have run into put that kind of thinking up with Salvation in Christ.
I mean it is lovely, it is true they are a reward, but no where in the Bible does it say how many you have to have and in fact, it cites many women who were infertile until GOD decided to give them the fruits of the womb.
The other frustrating thing is that when they are evangelising about it, they make painful assumptions.
I am all for having more, my Husband is not. The Bible SAYS I have to obey him, it does NOT say I have to force him to have children against his will in order to please God.
It has become like everything else, the emphasis is not on living the particular life God gave you to lead, it is about trying to get others to do what you want them to do.
And it is incredibly painful to be evangelised to by these people. And it is none of anyone’s business.
Like a wiser women then me once said, “My womb is my my business and my Husband’s business. It is God’s business. It is shocking you would even ask!”